Wednesday, January 17, 2024

What's in the old noggin today...


I've started this post several times in the last few days.  I have so much swimming in my head, every time I sit down to write, way too much starts spilling out.  This is just an introduction to what I've been mulling over recently.  Over the last month or so I've been immersing myself in researching how to manage and possibly improve osteoporosis.  

In November, I mentioned receiving a diagnosis of osteoporosis [OP] in a section of my spine after my first ever DEXA scan.   Having any amount of OP is hard news, and I didn't see it coming at all.  Then it felt like a double sucker punch to learn on the heels of an OP diagnosis that the aromatase inhibitor (endocrine therapy) I've been placed on for 5-7 years is known to diminish bone density.   

An aromatase inhibitor [AI] is prescribed to reduce risk of breast cancer recurrence - which is great, but sacrificing ones bones to reduce the risk of cancer recurrence seems an awfully steep price to pay.   "Not to worry", the doctor says, "there are medicines for osteoporosis too!"  Aside from the fact that OP drugs have some worrisome side effects, managing medicines that manage the effects of other medicines is not how I want to spend my "golden years" - if I can help it.  

I will meet with an endocrinologist in the spring, to see what she has to say.  On one hand I'm glad to have this appointment on the calendar, but on the other hand, I'm not thrilled with the drugs that will undoubtedly be recommended to me.   For now, I'm doing what I can do - in terms of making some lifestyle changes, and increasing my understanding of how exercise, nutrition, and yes...  possibly even drugs, may be used to get me to a better place with my bones.  

Since doctors don't have time to explain everything a patient needs to know in order to make a truly informed decision about treatment, I suspect the internet becomes a main source of information for a lot of us.  While the internet is a marvelous thing, it is not without its problems.  I am, first of all, very wary of anyone and everyone who has a YouTube channel and claims to be an expert.  It's an interesting time to live in.  So much information at our fingertips that we can avail ourselves of to improve our lives, but at the same time, the danger is great of falling prey to cyber snake oil salesmen and women.   Or following poor advice from well meaning and good people.  

I'm grateful for the people who share their experiences, and even medical expertise, online, but I try to be smart about consuming what is out there for the taking.  I research (or at least attempt to research) further anything that catches my attention and sounds like it might be helpful.  The internet was very helpful to me last year during the diagnosis and treatment of breast cancer.  It allowed me to dive deeper, to understand and trust the procedures done and treatments I received.  I'm hoping it will benefit me in this present situation, too  

I have found it helpful and rather amazing that the internet puts at our fingertips digital libraries of trials and research studies.  Even individual case studies can be enlightening.  We joke about consulting Dr. Google, but seriously...  Google is a powerful tool that, while it can drive a person insane with too much information, it can often help a person discover a solution to a difficult problem. 

Mostly, the internet has served me well.  Recently I stumbled on information that compelled me to approach my oncologist (just this past Monday) and ask him if a different endocrine therapy - that may actually help bone density - could be an option for me.  While he prefers an aromatase inhibitor for me, and frankly, I would too if it weren't for the bone density issue, he was agreeable to me trying the other (older) therapy.   In fact, in the notes of the encounter, was written that this switch was reasonable in light of the recent discovery of OP.  The older SERM therapy (in this case, Tamoxifen) is still widely used, and is considered great therapy for reducing breast cancer recurrence in pre-menopausal women, but aromatase inhibitors  have become the preferred therapy for post-menopausal women because AI's are a bit more effective, and they hold fewer potentially dangerous side effects for older women.

Having weighed the possibility of a terrible side effect of using SERM therapy with the pretty much guaranteed loss of bone density with AI's, switching to an endocrine therapy that won't harm my bones feels like a reasonable trade off.  And I can relax in the worry department while I wait for my endo appointment, and use my time and energy more productively, namely focusing on nutrition and exercise.   

It's possible (maybe) that the endocrinologist will ease my fears of osteoporosis medicine - even though I, personally, have big reason to be more concerned than maybe the average person does about one potential side effect in particular:  Osteonecrosis of the Jaw [ONJ].  It's not helpful to read that ONJ may be considered a rare occurrence if you fall into a category that makes you more likely to experience it.  I see my dentist later this week.  I will be interested to see what he has to say about it.  

For now, I'm relaxing into the relief I'm feeling because my oncologist heard and responded to my concern. And I feel empowered and motivated to continue to try to improve my situation, rather than helpless and rather hopeless like I was feeling about it over the last few weeks.

This week, I'm watching some of the presentations in a temporarily free online summit called Natural Approaches to Osteoporosis and Bone Health.  It has been interesting.  [I've removed most of the paragraph I wrote about accessing the free Summit because that is not pertinent at this point.]

I'm finding some of the presentations interesting, and oddly...  one of the main presenters, who recognizes the potential pitfalls of osteoporosis drugs, gave me insight and hope that this kind of drug may be safe enough for me to feel comfortable using for a short term.  It gives me something to discuss with the endo, at least.

Thanks for entering into my brain again.  Sometimes I just need to do a dump of all that's swimming around in there.  Though, to be sure...  this was more like a dribbly overflow of all that's sloshing around in my head at the moment.


22 comments:

  1. Wow! That is a lot to take in for you. OP is not something to mess around with and neither are the side effects of the OP drugs. I took one of the drugs for a while but needed a dental extraction and had to go off of it for months before the extraction too because of the osteonecrosis risk. I jave never gone back on the OP drug and have chosen a more natural way to help with my OP. I have gone from OP to oteopenia

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    1. Osteopenia! Being 70 yrs old I will take the improvement. Good luck my friend.

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    2. This is encouraging to read, Marsha. You're right - one has to do something about osteopenia and osteoporosis or it will just continue to get worse. Frankly, simply holding it steady will take work. I appreciate hearing your experience.

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  2. You have a handle on your health by researching. Prayers all goes well. The idea of several drugs to deal with taking them in the first place is something I saw my mother go through. I have to say though, it did improve the quality of her life. I know my pill days may be coming, but knowing it can improve my life, it won't be as scary.

    Stay postive

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    1. I don't think my oncologist is crazy about the research I do on the medicines he's given me. Honestly, I'm surprised I didn't dig deeper into the drugs used for chemo. I probably didn't because I was willing to go through pretty much anything if it meant peace of mind that any cancer cells at the time would be cleaned up. I'm in a more thoughtful place now that I'm ready to get on with life being more normal.

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  3. I hope you can navigate this new issue -- always something! I tried the oral medication for heading off op, but had to discontinue it. Now I do a twice yearly shot with no apparent side effects, much better. I also changed endo doctors from one vigorously pushing meds to one who walked me through decision making, better fit.

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    1. Thank you for sharing your experience, Liz. I sure wouldn't do well with any doctor who was too pushy about medicines - especially if I'm backing up my concern with facts. Facts that they know about, but don't bring them up until I do.

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    1. Oh, Linda, thank you. Your prayers are appreciated.

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  5. I am glad you shared this. I think it has been on my mind because that is basically my mom's problem at almost 89. Her fall was made worse because of this with her lower back compression fractures. I am 63 and I haven't had to take medicine yet, but my last Dexa had gone down a bit. I promised to strength train and see where we landed. I am not loving the idea of the meds because they have so many side effects. I know you are not looking forward to the idea either with all that you have gone through. Keep us posted and I do hope you find some good answers.

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  6. You are certainly persistent, Becki, and tenacious at being your own health advocate -- which is what we all have to be, especially as we get older. Continuing to pray for you as you navigate through it all.

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    1. I couldn't let this one go, Bob. And I'm glad I didn't. I was so excited to come across the information I did about SERM therapy. I wish my doctor had presented it as a choice from the beginning. I think he didn't because, at the end of the day he's more concerned about cancer recurrence than osteoporosis, or the effects of OP drugs.

      When I first met him in May of last year, I had done homework on AI's and I went to my first meeting not exactly on board with them. At that meeting, I asked if he respected if his patients made different choices than he wanted them to. He said yes and proceeded to tell me about a patient who was choosing not to take AI's (for similar reasons that I had back then). He said he understood her concerns, but it was clear he would have made a different choice than she did. It's not lost on me that I now may have replaced that patient as he's talking to new cancer patients now who ask a similar question. And I'm more than okay with that. :)

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  7. Becki, your noggin is more capable than mine for figuring out complicated medical issues! I am glad that you have the ability and the determination to research, understand, and make wise decisions concerning your health! Praying for continued clarity and guidance for you!

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    1. I appreciate the kind words, but I didn't really figure anything out that was truly complicated. I just found out there were more questions to be asking, and asking those questions took me deeper into things to be concerned about. I couldn't NOT do more research at that point. To be honest, I don't know if asking to be switched from the AI to the SERM is a wise decision. It's a reasonable choice, but at the end of the day, I've just traded one set of risks for a different set of risks. The new risks feel less threatening to me. It also doesn't have to be a permanent choice. I can always go back to the AI's if my concerns about OP can be relieved. I'm actually, hoping that is the case eventually.

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  8. Good for you!!! I love that you can talk with your doctor and not be worried you are rocking the boat-I am always so fearful of trying to have my own say. I love it that you are so informed. I do agree with you about YouTube-I have finally gotten the clue that they are not all what they seem to be. And so much conflicting advice! My mom was on one to the meds for OP and had to quit-for jaw issues. She did lose a tooth as well. But she's 92 and doing very well!

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    1. At the end of the day, Debra, I just didn't have any peace over continuing to take an AI knowing that it could further deteriorate my bones. If my DEXA had shown my bones were good, I probably wouldn't have given the AI anymore thought. I wasn't experiencing any of the typical side effects - like a foggy brain, or achiness and muscle pain, for example. I was grieved over the idea of giving up the AI, to be honest. Being pretty sure an endo is going to want to prescribe a bisphosphonate that builds density, but not good bone, I felt I was trapped in a horrible situation and I just couldn't sleep. A couple of weeks of that and I decided to use those sleepless hours more productively and begin a deep dive into Osteoporosis and its treatments. It was quite by accident that I landed on information about SERMs being helpful for bone density, and I spent some hours over yet another week researching until I felt it was a reasonable thing to ask about. But even at that point, I didn't know if the oncologist was going to have any reasons why I, personally, wasn't good fit for the SERM. Had that been the case, this post would have been very different.

      I hope the value in posting something like is to encourage people to do research - even if one knows they're going to follow a doctor's recommendation, I appreciate understanding the mechanism by which a particular drug does it's thing (when I'm able to), but at a minimum at least know what side effects to be on the lookout for.

      I'm always looking stuff up to understand a thing better - whether it has anything to do with me or not. I know my oncologist would prefer I didn't do deep dives into this stuff in particular, but he's nice enough about it. He also didn't diminish my concern.

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  9. Well done for going so deeply into it Becki, I hope that you find the best solution for you, it does sound complicated knowing which meds will work best for you. I know that weight bearing exercise is something that I should be doing for my bone health, I even bought a treadmill but it remains folded in the conservatory, I keep saying I will do more exercise but the truth be I'm just lazy. It's more than 10 years since I had a DEXA scan and it wasn't looking good for me then, I should really make the effort good diet and exercise can make a big difference. Take Care xx

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    1. Thanks for the encouragement Linda. I think this topic needs to be talked about more. If I had any idea that at 64 I could have osteoporosis (which has surely been developing for years), I would have been doing research on it and hopefully, would have tried to mitigate it before it got to this stage. I don't think of my self as young, but I honestly thought this was a disorder of people much older than mid 60's. I think it's nuts that (evidently) insurance doesn't typically cover DEXA's here until age 65. The money in health care costs saved would more than pay them back for the small cost of a DEXA scan. On the other hand, as I'm learning more, it seems many people who get real help end up seeking it outside of traditional medicine, which, I'm thinking, probably isn't covered by insurance. Having watched a number of the presenters this week in the summit mentioned above, I feel a bit better about the situation. Let's hope this feeling better I'm experiencing is warranted.

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  10. I didn't read all of this but email me if you want roosjeblog AT yahoo DOT CA. I have been on estrogen for 2 decades because I had osteoprosis early because of infertility. I am better than I was because of this and taking consistent walks. endoctrine doc is exactly who you need. estrogen builds bone. a family memeber of mine took bone density meds and yes the jaw was what scared this person too. if you need me, write, if not, God's blessings and peace. Don't be scared, God is with you my dear friend. I know it is hard, I have been there... big HUGS...

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    1. Elizabeth, I appreciate your story and I am sorry you developed osteoporosis so young. I am glad that it was found that you needed estrogen and that has been a solution for you. Unfortunately, that solution is excluded for me because my cancer was estrogen receptive. The whole purpose of endocrine therapy for breast cancer peeps is to remove estrogen or disable estrogen's potentiality to feed new cancer cells. Osteoporosis in people who have had breast cancer complicates, and possibly reduces options for OP treatment.

      I hope you see this, and/or maybe it will be of interest to someone else... First a story, then my point. I, too, experienced years of infertility - in my 20's. First an early miscarriage, then about 7 years of subsequent infertility. When I finally sought an answer to my infertility, it was found out that I didn't produce enough progesterone to support a pregnancy. Happily, for me, the solution to that was to take progesterone.

      Fast forward to one day last week when I'm watching a video in the Osteoporosis Summit mentioned above, and one of the presenters (a gynecologist, I believe) explained that progesterone is equally important to a woman's bone development as estrogen is. According to the study referenced, if progesterone is lacking, or not produced at the right time in a woman's cycle, her bones will take a hit. Years of that may significantly impact the density of a woman's bones. It was a lightbulb moment for me, and I now know that discussing this with my endocrinologist is possibly an important part of my medical history.

      Of course, at this stage in life I can't possibly know all that has gone into now having a diagnosis of osteoporosis (in the spine). I hope my endo will run tests to see if there is any underlying cause at present. My big takeaway from all the reading I've been doing lately is that people need to be made more aware of osteoporosis, and I personally believe a first bone density screening should be offered before, or at least shortly after menopause just to get a baseline. Insurance won't pay for a screening this young, but they DEXA scans aren't terribly expensive. Waiting until age 65 is just going to be too late for many people. There are many causes of bone loss, and if osteopenia is discovered early a person has a far greater chance at improving their bone density than if it is allowed to progress to osteoporosis. I'm not the only one who thinks this way: https://www.columbiadoctors.org/news/when-should-i-get-bone-density-test

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  11. I think every person has to weight the pro's and con's of any treatment and then proceed according to what's in their heart. I personally am always surprised when I get a bone density done and find that I'm in the ok range because I've never been able to consume milk and much of what you read claims that you need it. I've always taken calcium supplements though so perhaps that's helped.
    I agree that there's so much information out there, both right and wrong, and it's hard to sift through it all. My go-to when it comes to asking Dr. Google for information is always the Mayo Clinic and I hope they are trustworthy.
    Once again, thank you for sharing so much about your journey with us. It can't be easy for you to do that and it's much appreciated.

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